Steve lays it all out, while I install CS5

Steve Jobs has such great timing. While a few hundred thousand developers are getting pumped to check out Adobe’s latest and greatest software (I’m mid-install), Steve posts this very well-explained article titled “Thoughts on Flash” And like a good lawyer he makes his case pretty well. The closing argument is one I agree with too… “Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future…”

I think us Adobe fanboys can gnaw at some of the other point he makes, but should at least get behind that final statement. HTML5 really excites me, not as a replacement to Flash, but because HTML4 sucks.  And like anything new and cool to us web-heads,  it would be a damn shame if Adobe wasn’t involved, or even better, spearheading how HTML5 content is created. Since I’ll inevitably be teaching HTML5 one day, I would like to be using Adobe products like Dreamweaver or Flash in the process.

Nuff said on that. Who missed the Jon Stewart , Apple video.

Still installingCS5!


11 thoughts on “Steve lays it all out, while I install CS5

  1. FlashPredator says:

    Yo Justin, here in the UK price is like £2300 for cs5 which is stupid, They haven’t written anything from the ground up so I can’t justify the price.

    I have an education version so the price isn’t that crazy for me in the Uk but can they blame people for wanting to obtain illegal versions when their prices are this high. In a state of global recession and with them owning the market it isn’t wise to “rock the boat”.

    I even have to use webuilder 2008 which is awesome for php and html etc as dreamweaver crashes quite often. It even deletes files when it crashes with no recovery when working on a server. (for a stylesheet that’s a nightmare) Spoke to adobe about t and they never came back to me a year on.

    Keep it up adobe and everyone will be using silverlight by the end of the year.

  2. I’ve used Windows 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista, 7, Mac OS9, OSX, Palm OS, Web OS, iPhone OS (whatever it’s called) and Linux and they’re all the same. Not really sure why there’s die hard fanboys of any operating system, I guess so you can pick a side and hate anyone who goes against you. Each OS has it’s advantages and disadvantages, it comes with trying to please everyone.

    The whole Adobe vs. Apple War is ridiculous in itself. Just because Apple products don’t support Flash doesn’t make either of them right or wrong, it is what it is. Personally, I earn a living off of Flash, but it doesn’t mean I hate Steve Jobs now. While I don’t use his products, I respect the fact that they’ve changed the way people communicate with each other.

    Maybe one day someone will design a plug-in and an OS that solves all of today’s technically issues. Until then I’m going to sit here and wait while Flash CS4 installs…

  3. Ok so far html5 is crap so until I see something cool I don’t really care about it….

    I am a flash developer and I will stick to it until the end, there are a lot of flash haters out there that will do everything to make it go away, it is our job as flash developers to prove them that they are wrong and flash will be around for a long time.

    Adobe is the most creative company out there, it helps express our self with flash, photoshop and other amazing programs… you say that html5 will be the future but I think it will take 100 years to be fun to work with it, I mean who thinks that JavaScript is fun they have some really serious problems!

    I will do everything I can to support flash and that’s it who dose not like that they can ….:)

  4. Tyler says:

    Here is my problem with HTML 5

    “Ian Hickson, editor of the HTML5 specification, expects the specification to reach the W3C Candidate Recommendation stage during 2012, and W3C Recommendation in the year 2022 or later.[8] However, many parts of the specification are stable and may be implemented in products:”

    I am not going to switch to a supposed “standard” over Flash when it isn’t even draft confirmed! Not to mention the fact that there are still only 2 browsers that support canvas, safari and chrome. Mozilla and IE will support the video tag, oh boy! Well maybe I don’t want my video container defined by the browser the user is visiting from?

    The workflow is much better in Flash than these emerging web technologies, and while I am not opposed to change, I am frustrated by the arrogance of Jobs/Apple when it comes to this technology.

    Plus Job’s letter is garbage, most of the stuff he is saying is total crap and I would like to point out that Flash is literally an “open” technology, the IDE is not but the framework and language is and unlike Apple adobe will not prevent cross compiling or using independant libraries and frameworks as Apple has done. My respect for Apple diminishes by the day, this letter counts as libel in my book.

  5. I think that just like Adobe Flash was a source of inspiration for the next generation of web technologies (HTML5), now they can push forward this by creating a new set of tools, that help the developers and designers to create cool stuff that is open standards compliant, in this way the adoption of HTML5 will be faster.

  6. Jt says:

    This is sort of at the commenters and the general “Adobe side” of the argument with Flash/iPhone.

    If this was truly about freedom of choice (which it’s not, it’s just a pointless spitting match over a design decision that is well justified for some) then you wouldn’t mind us having the choice to obtain a device that doesn’t support Flash, so that we can go about browsing the web without having to load 3 separate Flash ads for every page which we don’t care about, and which drain our battery life significantly for no good reason.

    The vast majority of Flash content is advertising. Past that, it’s video, which doesn’t really require Flash at all, and Flash is a bad way to do it in the first place. After that, it’s games, which simply don’t run as well through a browser plugin as natively coded games do. I will concede that if Flash did perform well in the browser, it might be kind of cool. But bottom line, if you’re going to play a game on your iPhone for more than a couple minutes, you’re probably going to get one of the native ones that runs faster, was made specifically for your device, and uses less battery.

    Listen, I like Flash. I spent about 4 years of my life designing pretty much nothing but Flash. I loved it. It was a great technology. But what Steve Jobs says is true. First of all, it HAS failed to grow with technology, it IS behind on performance and battery life, and it ABSOLUTELY DOES crash browsers more than anything else. Those are indisputable, proven facts. I don’t hate Adobe because of them. I just wish they would fix them instead of pretending they’re not real issues.

    In the meantime, as an iPhone and soon-to-be iPad owner I’m very very glad that my devices do not support Flash. This will hopefully force Adobe to fix things they should have fixed long ago to earn their way onto the device. Right now Flash just isn’t ready, in my opinion, and if you disagree, there are a wide variety of other tablets that do support Flash. Or, you know, you could go swear at people on forums and blogs, and call Steve Jobs a fag because you disagree with his opinion, even though you almost certainly know less about the technology than him.

    Agree or disagree, that choice is up to you. And feel free to dispute individual points if you have something to actually back it up with. But when you throw all facts out the window and go on a tirade about how horrible Apple is for having a different opinion you just look like a tool.

  7. I wouldn’t say Flash has fallen behind, I think developers are packing too much in. The ads that crash are doing too much usually. And yeah, 3 on a page is part of the problem. Sites that serve Flash ads need to have some common sense.

    Remember one thing Flash is very good at. Replacing GIFs. I go to a site called (yes, I’m a dork) Their site hasn’t changed much in 15 years, and in the top right corner they still use animated gifs. The Iron Man parody up there right now is 820kb. Nearly a 1mb!! And I’ve visited the site when their gif has been over 2 or 3MB, mind you its a small thumbnail too. Well a few months back they wanted to really highlight one of the animations, so they posted it in an article and showed a larger dimension SWF version. First off, I was just amazed that their animator had apparently been working in Flash this entire time, and exporting to GIF! Then I checked the size of the SWF. It was under 50kb. The same animated GIF was over a 1MB.

    So imagine if every mobile ad goes back to being an animated gif again. Thats not good either. And definitely won’t be fun downloading over the Edge or 3g network.

    And HTML5 will get used and abused the same as Flash: Some developers will work with it wonderfully and make high quality animated ads that are low bandwidth and un-obnoxious, while many others will make HTML5 bloated because clients will want more “in your face impact”, and one-upmanship often wins out of over good practice.

    So who knows, one day Steve Jobs might be going “dang, HTML5 is an ugly crashy battery-draining mess, I gotta work with Adobe again.”

  8. Jt says:

    Hmm, well perhaps in your experience the only Flash that crashes is Flash that has way too much going on, but my experience has been quite different. Flash crashes my browser frequently, without warning, whether it be a simple Flash game, a banner ad with maybe 2 things in motion and a mouse over effect, or a crazy complex site like 2advanced. It doesn’t seem to have any correlation, in my experience, to how much is going on in the Flash.

    I am not really behind using Flash instead of animated GIFs, in fact I think use of either for a simple animation is bad practice. I would highly recommend javascript/HTML5 for this purpose. The file size would be even lower and the processor use would be next to 0. And while I don’t support use of animated GIFs any more, I would still prefer that to Flash especially when we’re talking about a mobile device. Megabytes are cheap, but megahertz are still in demand. The file size of a GIF may be larger than a SWF, but the processor (and therefore battery) use is next to nothing.

    I also can’t agree with the notion that HTML5 will be abused the way Flash is. As I stated I don’t tend to find much relation between size and the ability to crash when it comes to Flash, and I notice that Flash uses nearly 100% of my processor power no matter what it is doing. I think you’d be very hard pressed to write HTML5 that comes close to using the resources of even a very simple Flash file.

  9. Oh I’m on a Mac, I KNOW Flash crashes way too much. But it didn’t used to. From what I remember Flash Player 4 through Flash Player 8 (or so), rarely ever crashed.

    But JT have you read this….

    Definitely you are right, Flash performs way worse than HTML5 in Safari on the Mac, but otherwise they are about even and sometimes Flash is better. I’m sure you won’t be buying a PC though to find out =)

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